"Well yes no, the end of the first step of the Natural turn in the waltz ends with the left knee along side the right knee with the foot still trailing behind."

No.

In the formal language of ballroom technique, the end of an ordinary passing step is defined to occur when the feet (not the knees) are momentarily together.

anymouse, you were correct. It was the American style smooth Fox Trot, without a feather step, that I was referring to.
I found the advice I got interesting, but I was pointing out steps in the American style, not International standard with the feather step.
I will have to try it a few times, but the premise of starting a dance with a slow feather step seems like it would work fine.
I wouldn't know for sure, but I would venture to guess that beginners could struggle with that.

That may be the formal description but in practice by the time the feet are passing the body weight is over the ball and toe of the foot and is on it's way to the next step. I wish you people would make up your mind, one minute you say the text is only a guide and the next minute your quoting from the damn text . Anyway when did I ask for a descption of a step. the message was directed at me. I will continue to dance and think of a step as the swing of ONE foot from it's backward position to it's forward position which is the way any soldier or band time the steps . The idea of moving two feet to take one step is idotic.

". . . by the time the feet are passing the body weight is over the ball and toe of the foot and is on it's (sic) way to the next step."

This statement is something of an oversimplification. It would certainly not apply to a step with toe-heel footwork such as the third step of the feather in the Standard Fox Trot or the fourth step of a Chasse' from Promenade Position in Waltz.

Also, this entire discussion is ignoring backward steps.

jj

Children: let's not squable.

Dude, the word is "squabble."

jj

"That may be the formal description but in practice by the time the feet are passing the body weight is..."

Indeed, in the traditional language of ballroom dance the definition of a step has nothing specifically to do with the movement of the body weight.

It's merely a bounded unit of dancing for purposes of description.

If you look at things in terms of movement, for many dances the borders between steps are usually non-existent and it's impossible to say where one ends and the other begins, other than to arbitrarily agree on something, which is what has been done by the teaching community.

"I will continue to dance and think of a step as the swing of ONE foot from it's backward position to it's forward position which is the way any soldier or band time the steps ."

You may do that, but it will put you at odds with the established language of dance teaching and technical discussion.

Why not simply refer to this a a "leg swing" ? That would be quite specific, and avoid confusion with textbook steps, and also with weight transfers (a leg swing often implies a weight change, but by no means always does so).

cdroge. I think everybody is aware that the person going backwards has there next moving foot slightly behind. If they didn't and started feet together they would be pushed onto there step. For the purpose of where does the step begin and where does it end is always from the person going forward.That little extension by the person moving backwards is the beginning of the next step. It can be on the count of three (and). In the Waltz. Or four (and ) Foxtrot. If you work it out it coresponds with the bending of the standing knee.If the foot didn't move and you bent you would be stuck. No extension without a bend .

Or four (and ) Foxtrot. If you work it out it coresponds with the bending of the standing knee.If the foot didn't move and you bent you would be stuck. No extension without a bend .
Polished ; you are so out of touch with the timing of today's international foxtrot where most people lower on or near the first beat. You may enjoy living in the past but we have to dance Today.

As the originator of this topic, I have enjoyed reading all of the responses. It sounds like most of you have had years of experience, however, I am only a beginner and very interested in learning the proper techniques, timing, etc, in order to make myself a better dancer.

There were many terms with which I am not yet familiar, such as "feather step". I dance American Smooth (not international) and have had (some) instruction from the Arthur Murray program, but currently am using the Fred Astaire preogram. I vaguely remember the feather step in my Arthur Murray instruction, while Freddie's program has not yet mentioned this term. All this to say that as a beginner, most of the responses, while I do appreciate them, are too difficult for me to understand. Some of the responses were so difficult, it would almost scare me away from dance :)

For whatever it is worth, from my personal view, the two responses best understood by ME were the first couple on July 9 from "anymouse" and "CliveHarrison". The others were just a little too deep (for me).

Perhaps some of you have been dancing so long that you have forgotten what it's like to be a beginner?? Simplicity and clarity are best for us beginners. However, I can see that most of you have enjoyed discussing this subject, and it was great reading your different views, even though I would have to really "study" some of the views before I could understand them.

Maybe in a short while, I will be good enough to join in on your forums and know a little more about steps, timing, etc. One of the best things I've done for myself so far is going on ballroom.com's message board and requesting help. I am sure I'll be back. Thank you all.